The Freedom! family has it wrong...

[OnlyUltimate]

Before I get into this, I am not making any personal attacks on any members of the community nor should this be taken as an attack on the community. This is my personal opinion shaped by my experience on YouTube and the Freedom! forums.

This community has it very wrong when it comes to advice and help. I see many forum users give so called advice that is not meaningful and won't get the receiver of the advice anywhere in the grand scheme of things on YouTube.

The biggest complaint, so to speak, I have about this community is that users tend to keep repeating the same improvements when it comes to "channel reviews" and these so called improvements don't help their channel at all! For example, a channel trailer (a short video that introduces the viewer to the channel) is always recommended on this community but the fact is, it's not needed. Instead, you should put your best video (in terms of quality) or your latest video as the channel trailer. Why you ask? If they're interested in those videos, then they'll stick around for a bit longer and eventually subscribe and stay longer! Why talk about what you do in the channel trailer when you could show them what you do.

Also, things like better thumbnails, channel art, tags and titles are always suggested in these "channel reviews" but this won't help if you don't have the exposure in the first place. Especially for small channels, YouTube is such a saturated market so good thumbnails, titles and tags won't get you anywhere on such a saturated platform where SEO will have little effect for small channels. SEO requires more than just good titles and tags, they also require a substantial amount of views, likes, retention, etc which people are advising you get via SEO but in fact, this is what SEO needs. Ultimately, people in the Freedom! community always talk about having good tags and titles so that videos can get more views but in actual truth, SEO requires views and etc in the first place! This means that exposure has to be obtained through a different method (or in conjunction with) an active method that doesn't rely on YouTube algorithms. I can go into more detail but I don't have the time to write a full guide as to what I recommend when it comes to exposure (which I have used to get my channel where it is now and continuing to grow). Though I do have the time to say this: keep making videos you enjoy and don't let anyone stop you, this is what I follow.

In summary, this community is built upon helping each other and growing together as a family but forget the fact that advice and help can be good or bad, so help and advice given to most members of the Freedom! family and the forum community are from inexperienced and unsuccessful (currently) channels that won't get receivers of the advice and help anywhere on YouTube.

 

[Nolan Westmore]

Before I get into this, I am not making any personal attacks on any members of the community nor should this be taken as an attack on the community. This is my personal opinion shaped by my experience on YouTube and the Freedom! forums.

This community has it very wrong when it comes to advice and help. I see many forum users give so called advice that is not meaningful and won't get the receiver of the advice anywhere in the grand scheme of things on YouTube.

The biggest complaint, so to speak, I have about this community is that users tend to keep repeating the same improvements when it comes to "channel reviews" and these so called improvements don't help their channel at all! For example, a channel trailer (a short video that introduces the viewer to the channel) is always recommended on this community but the fact is, it's not needed. Instead, you should put your best video (in terms of quality) or your latest video as the channel trailer. Why you ask? If they're interested in those videos, then they'll stick around for a bit longer and eventually subscribe and stay longer! Why talk about what you do in the channel trailer when you could show them what you do.

Also, things like better thumbnails, channel art, tags and titles are always suggested in these "channel reviews" but this won't help if you don't have the exposure in the first place. Especially for small channels, YouTube is such a saturated market so good thumbnails, titles and tags won't get you anywhere on such a saturated platform where SEO will have little effect for small channels. SEO requires more than just good titles and tags, they also require a substantial amount of views, likes, retention, etc which people are advising you get via SEO but in fact, this is what SEO needs. Ultimately, people in the Freedom! community always talk about having good tags and titles so that videos can get more views but in actual truth, SEO requires views and etc in the first place! This means that exposure has to be obtained through a different method (or in conjunction with) an active method that doesn't rely on YouTube algorithms. I can go into more detail but I don't have the time to write a full guide as to what I recommend when it comes to exposure (which I have used to get my channel where it is now and continuing to grow). Though I do have the time to say this: keep making videos you enjoy and don't let anyone stop you, this is what I follow.

In summary, this community is built upon helping each other and growing together as a family but forget the fact that advice and help can be good or bad, so help and advice given to most members of the Freedom! family and the forum community are from inexperienced and unsuccessful (currently) channels that won't get receivers of the advice and help anywhere on YouTube.

The real reason why people always suggest the same things in the channel review sections is simply because they don't know what else to suggest, they are putting ideas out there for the person themselves to look for ways to improve. Example; If I am asking for feedback on my channel, then I would likely ask for areas of improvement. Since this is my channel we are talking about and not my videos, I am going to get feedback regarding the visual elements and layout of my channel. However, I wouldn't ask for this personally as I'd really just prefer to have my own standards to hold things to, and if I need to ask for where to improve then there shouldn't be anything to improve because I should be looking myself. I know how I make these things, so I'm the only one who can improve them. Right?

Right. I get putting the best video in the trailer section, it shows people what they're capable of, but some people aren't sure of what their best is so having a dedicated video which is made in the best way one can would likely work better for many people. That said, don't half-ass your channel trailer, it will backfire for new visitors.

Now onto your SEO rant, SEO [Search Engine Optimization] is not inclusive of your views and retention, but those are factors in keeping you in the rankings. Your title, tags, and description are the three basic things that will determine if you rank from view zero. If you can't rank from view zero in a tag area, you shouldn't be using that tag unless you have a large subscriber base that will boost you into it. So if you want to have a chance when you're dealing with your primary audience, then you're going want to appeal using tags that, when searched by your audience, will be found on the first page of search results.

To build on that, I will share my two mottos in YouTube.

First, your TTD should be specific to your video and not videos like yours. What's the point on having a search term for your video if it's just going to bring up 20+ identical videos? In which case, if there are 20+ identical videos, especially ones from bigger creators, what are you doing making that video? Your audience should be able to search for your video, not ones like it. Use things like Google AdWords to find search frequencies for videos, and then Tubebuddy to find if it is worth using based on competition.

Second, don't market to bodies of individuals outside of YouTube. While I'm pretty sure that this is what you mentioned about a method that doesn't rely on YouTube's algorithms, you seriously don't want to market to extra-YouTube viewership. To me at least, it is a sign that you are making content on YouTube that your primary audience is unable to find. Your primary audience, the people that are most likely to enjoy your videos, the ones most likely to subscribe and stick around, those are the ones that go to the videos, not the ones that have the videos come to them. I use a similar phrase when telling people to ditch sub-4-sub and other self-promotion methods. "You're only doing it right if the subscribers come to you, if you have to go to the subscribers, just quit".

TL;DR, make sure you primary audience of YouTube searchers can find it in the search, if they can't find you, you're making the wrong kind of video or using the wrong search terms for tags. If you have to go to the subscriber/viewer, you're doing it wrong. They have to come to you.

 

[LW]

For example, a channel trailer (a short video that introduces the viewer to the channel) is always recommended on this community but the fact is, it's not needed.

It can help a first impression of your channel.

Instead, you should put your best video (in terms of quality) or your latest video as the channel trailer. Why you ask? If they're interested in those videos, then they'll stick around for a bit longer and eventually subscribe and stay longer! Why talk about what you do in the channel trailer when you could show them what you do.

In a good channel trailer you actually do show what you do as well though and not just talk about it.

Also, things like better thumbnails, channel art, tags and titles are always suggested in these "channel reviews" but this won't help if you don't have the exposure in the first place. Especially for small channels, YouTube is such a saturated market so good thumbnails, titles and tags won't get you anywhere on such a saturated platform where SEO will have little effect for small channels. SEO requires more than just good titles and tags, they also require a substantial amount of views, likes, retention, etc which people are advising you get via SEO but in fact, this is what SEO needs. Ultimately, people in the Freedom! community always talk about having good tags and titles so that videos can get more views but in actual truth, SEO requires views and etc in the first place! This means that exposure has to be obtained through a different method (or in conjunction with) an active method that doesn't rely on YouTube algorithms. I can go into more detail but I don't have the time to write a full guide as to what I recommend when it comes to exposure (which I have used to get my channel where it is now and continuing to grow). Though I do have the time to say this: keep making videos you enjoy and don't let anyone stop you, this is what I follow.

As of this part I do have a few questions to you on it;

1. If you believe having good thumbnails and tags doesn't help you get exposure, what will?
   We all know YouTube. The entire site is full of featuring videos and next to every video there's a few recommendations. These recommendations (As you know) are given out by similar Metadata to videos you are interested in. If you just don't have that metadata on your videos noone will find your video, not in Search and not in any recommendations, that being he YouTube homepage, Subscription Feed or the recommendations next to a video. Also, here's a question: Would you rather click on a thumbnail like this:
   
   Spoiler: Image

   
   or one like this:
   
   Spoiler: Image

   
   Now imagine you see these two shrinked down in your YouTube recommendations (and want to know how to make good thumbnails). We both know you'll catch the bottom one first.
2. As of SEO requiring views and things like that, there's a few tiny things I want to mention:
   1) Have you seen for example the [NEW] icon next to a video on YouTube? That is actually a feature that gets Newer videos onto the top pages of a YouTube search. It's one of the things you can get to have a video featured, no matter what channel you own.
   2) I myself have really underestimated how far a video can go with good SEO even on a smaller channel. Here's an example from a video I made about a year ago. A popular Minecraft server had just released a new Anti-Cheat and I had made a video recording the way someone got banned. I can remember having spent a ton of time at the tags of the video. My channel was at around 20 Subscribers back then and all my videos only got around 10-20 views. This video though was different. I had spent a ton of time at the tags and put in some that I thought were relevant and people would watch. When I released it the video got an insane amount of views and long retention even though in hindsight it was really badly structured. That video is now at 2.35k views and still gets a decent amount of views. Keep in mind my channel had 20 Subs and virtually no views back then.

3. In summary, this community is built upon helping each other and growing together as a family but forget the fact that advice and help can be good or bad, so help and advice given to most members of the Freedom! family and the forum community are from inexperienced and unsuccessful (currently) channels that won't get receivers of the advice and help anywhere on YouTube.

   As of this part, sorry, but what do you expect from a Forum like this? As Freedom! is a Network with generally a low amount of Subscribers surely not everyone on these Forums will be YouTube Certified in Audience Growth but some people here can help you out a lot. I'm not saying they doon't sometimes say totally false things, I'm not saying I've not said absolute BS in the past in some cases. But in the end, you can ask people for help and get some good replies sometimes. Though you do need to take these replies with a bit of carefulness and that's why multiple people can reply to you. Yes, I have an inactive and small channel, but does that exclude me from having the abiity to help people? No. Does that exclude me from being able to say some facts like for example that it's a fact that no online business or YouTube channel for that regard needs to be optimized to be found by search engines? No. The thing is, people that cone here and write Channel Reviews aren't perfect either. But when you get replies from five people then I'm pretty sure you are able to filter some correct things from incorrect ones.

These are my opinions on this.

 

[crosbymowry]

Hi. I agree with your outlook on things. Is there any way we can private message? I would really love to know how to rise my channel views and grow my channels community.

 

[LW]

Hi. I agree with your outlook on things. Is there any way we can private message? I would really love to know how to rise my channel views and grow my channels community.

You can message any Member by clicking on their profile picture and pressing "Start a private Conversation".

 

[crosbymowry]

You can message any Member by clicking on their profile picture and pressing "Start a private Conversation".

OK. thank you

 

[OnlyUltimate]

The real reason why people always suggest the same things in the channel review sections is simply because they don't know what else to suggest, they are putting ideas out there for the person themselves to look for ways to improve. Example; If I am asking for feedback on my channel, then I would likely ask for areas of improvement. Since this is my channel we are talking about and not my videos, I am going to get feedback regarding the visual elements and layout of my channel. However, I wouldn't ask for this personally as I'd really just prefer to have my own standards to hold things to, and if I need to ask for where to improve then there shouldn't be anything to improve because I should be looking myself. I know how I make these things, so I'm the only one who can improve them. Right?

Right. I get putting the best video in the trailer section, it shows people what they're capable of, but some people aren't sure of what their best is so having a dedicated video which is made in the best way one can would likely work better for many people. That said, don't half-ass your channel trailer, it will backfire for new visitors.

Now onto your SEO rant, SEO [Search Engine Optimization] is not inclusive of your views and retention, but those are factors in keeping you in the rankings. Your title, tags, and description are the three basic things that will determine if you rank from view zero. If you can't rank from view zero in a tag area, you shouldn't be using that tag unless you have a large subscriber base that will boost you into it. So if you want to have a chance when you're dealing with your primary audience, then you're going want to appeal using tags that, when searched by your audience, will be found on the first page of search results.

To build on that, I will share my two mottos in YouTube.

First, your TTD should be specific to your video and not videos like yours. What's the point on having a search term for your video if it's just going to bring up 20+ identical videos? In which case, if there are 20+ identical videos, especially ones from bigger creators, what are you doing making that video? Your audience should be able to search for your video, not ones like it. Use things like Google AdWords to find search frequencies for videos, and then Tubebuddy to find if it is worth using based on competition.

Second, don't market to bodies of individuals outside of YouTube. While I'm pretty sure that this is what you mentioned about a method that doesn't rely on YouTube's algorithms, you seriously don't want to market to extra-YouTube viewership. To me at least, it is a sign that you are making content on YouTube that your primary audience is unable to find. Your primary audience, the people that are most likely to enjoy your videos, the ones most likely to subscribe and stick around, those are the ones that go to the videos, not the ones that have the videos come to them. I use a similar phrase when telling people to ditch sub-4-sub and other self-promotion methods. "You're only doing it right if the subscribers come to you, if you have to go to the subscribers, just quit".

TL;DR, make sure you primary audience of YouTube searchers can find it in the search, if they can't find you, you're making the wrong kind of video or using the wrong search terms for tags. If you have to go to the subscriber/viewer, you're doing it wrong. They have to come to you.

Very insightful and thanks for your reply.

What I didn't get into detail with SEO is that titles and tags by itself won't get you anywhere as for SEO to be successful the prescence of all factors (e.g. views, subscribers, etc) are required not just good titles and tags which I have seen recommended and suggested all over these forums, which was the point of this thread. Also, SEO on YouTube favours views, retention and subscribers more than anything when ranking videos so being a small channel with a small amount of views and subscribers, using the YouTube algorithm to get your target audience to watch won't get you anywhere as anything you tag won't get you anywhere feasible on the search rankings. This is why I suggested an active method that doesn't rely on YouTube algorithm has to be used and not the passive method of using the YouTube algorithm to do it for you.

This is also why your last quote is short sighted as the only way to get subscribers to you passively is to use the YouTube algorithm but as I said that would be useless. In reality, to be somewhat successful you'll have to "advertise" your content so to speak, for small channels at least. In my opinion, you'll get nowhere on YouTube thinking like that.

As for the channel trailer, I said that putting one of your latest videos as the channel trailer is enough even if it isn't your best. A channel trailer explaining what you are capable of will never get someone to stay let alone subscribe and watch other videos. A video that a viewer may potentially be interested in will get them to stick around. I know this as this is what I do and it was more successful.

As for the channel reviews you said it best yourself and it was the point I was trying to make. They don't hold any value in my opinion, especially since people have different tastes.[DOUBLEPOST=1487522337][/DOUBLEPOST]

It can help a first impression of your channel.

In a good channel trailer you actually do show what you do as well though and not just talk about it.

As of this part I do have a few questions to you on it;

1. If you believe having good thumbnails and tags doesn't help you get exposure, what will?
   We all know YouTube. The entire site is full of featuring videos and next to every video there's a few recommendations. These recommendations (As you know) are given out by similar Metadata to videos you are interested in. If you just don't have that metadata on your videos noone will find your video, not in Search and not in any recommendations, that being he YouTube homepage, Subscription Feed or the recommendations next to a video. Also, here's a question: Would you rather click on a thumbnail like this:
   
   Spoiler: Image

   
   or one like this:
   
   Spoiler: Image

   
   Now imagine you see these two shrinked down in your YouTube recommendations (and want to know how to make good thumbnails). We both know you'll catch the bottom one first.
2. As of SEO requiring views and things like that, there's a few tiny things I want to mention:
   1) Have you seen for example the [NEW] icon next to a video on YouTube? That is actually a feature that gets Newer videos onto the top pages of a YouTube search. It's one of the things you can get to have a video featured, no matter what channel you own.
   2) I myself have really underestimated how far a video can go with good SEO even on a smaller channel. Here's an example from a video I made about a year ago. A popular Minecraft server had just released a new Anti-Cheat and I had made a video recording the way someone got banned. I can remember having spent a ton of time at the tags of the video. My channel was at around 20 Subscribers back then and all my videos only got around 10-20 views. This video though was different. I had spent a ton of time at the tags and put in some that I thought were relevant and people would watch. When I released it the video got an insane amount of views and long retention even though in hindsight it was really badly structured. That video is now at 2.35k views and still gets a decent amount of views. Keep in mind my channel had 20 Subs and virtually no views back then.
3. 
   As of this part, sorry, but what do you expect from a Forum like this? As Freedom! is a Network with generally a low amount of Subscribers surely not everyone on these Forums will be YouTube Certified in Audience Growth but some people here can help you out a lot. I'm not saying they doon't sometimes say totally false things, I'm not saying I've not said absolute BS in the past in some cases. But in the end, you can ask people for help and get some good replies sometimes. Though you do need to take these replies with a bit of carefulness and that's why multiple people can reply to you. Yes, I have an inactive and small channel, but does that exclude me from having the abiity to help people? No. Does that exclude me from being able to say some facts like for example that it's a fact that no online business or YouTube channel for that regard needs to be optimized to be found by search engines? No. The thing is, people that cone here and write Channel Reviews aren't perfect either. But when you get replies from five people then I'm pretty sure you are able to filter some correct things from incorrect ones.

These are my opinions on this.

You misunderstood the point of my post. Not once did I say that people who are inexperienced and unsuccessful are unable to give advice or help. It's the fact that most advice in the Freedom! community doesn't really help each other grow as a family, which is my biggest criticism. I honestly want the best for this community and this has been on my mind the full year I have been partnered with the Freedom! MCN. Also, it's not about what's correct or incorrect, it's about what's good advice and what's bad advice.

Since YouTube hasn't released its algorithm, there is technically no data that concretely shows that having a good thumbnail, title and tag helps with SEO (therefore exposure) for small channels. It's based on opinion, personal experiences and assumptions (as you pretty much say at the end of your post).

My most popular video on my channel has around 3k views. It has the worst tags, horrible title and horrible thumbnail. By your logic, I can then say SEO doesn't matter and thumbnails don't matter but I just can't. One video doesn't prove anything. If you have several videos following the the same methods that have thousands of views then well done you've figured it out but you don't. I've been using the same method for over a year and I've gone from 0 subscribers to 4k subs using it. This why I am so firm with my opinion. What makes you so firm with yours?

 

[LW]

Since YouTube hasn't released its algorithm, there is technically no data that concretely shows that having a good thumbnail, title and tag helps with SEO (therefore exposure) for small channels. It's based on opinion, personal experiences and assumptions (as you pretty much say at the end of your post).

Having a catchy thumbnail does catch your eye. That has actually been proven in the past. A thumbnail isn't part of what a crawler identifies, which we both know. Though it's dead important to have your video stand out. As you won't take it from me this is a video I found through a quick Google search:

My most popular video on my channel has around 3k views. It has the worst tags, horrible title and horrible thumbnail. By your logic, I can then say SEO doesn't matter and thumbnails don't matter but I just can't. One video doesn't prove anything. If you have several videos following the the same methods that have thousands of views then well done you've figured it out but you don't. I've been using the same method for over a year and I've gone from 0 subscribers to 4k subs using it. This why I am so firm with my opinion. What makes you so firm with yours?

I haven't said that having good tags in the only way to grow anywhere. Though if someone can find your video by searching it up you can make a huge difference. Take some popular YT channels. They have likely made a few videos on some trends that were happening (Examples: YT Heroes, PPAP, Drama around different YTers, you name it). If you look at any of these trend videos you will see tons of other videos about that trend next to it. That is because of tags. As of your videos, your thumbnails do stand out and have similarities and your tags; Hell, they rank!

 

[OnlyUltimate]

Having a catchy thumbnail does catch your eye. That has actually been proven in the past. A thumbnail isn't part of what a crawler identifies, which we both know. Though it's dead important to have your video stand out. As you won't take it from me this is a video I found through a quick Google search:

I haven't said that having good tags in the only way to grow anywhere. Though if someone can find your video by searching it up you can make a huge difference. Take some popular YT channels. They have likely made a few videos on some trends that were happening (Examples: YT Heroes, PPAP, Drama around different YTers, you name it). If you look at any of these trend videos you will see tons of other videos about that trend next to it. That is because of tags. As of your videos, your thumbnails do stand out and have similarities and your tags; Hell, they rank!View attachment 18218

Yes, of course thumbnails catch your eye, but they won't get you anywhere if no one can see them if you aren't on ranked on the searches, which is my point. Once you get to the point where you are ranked on the searches, then they play a big role on getting the clicks and views, which is not the case for many small channels of the Freedom! community. Quality (over quantity) is the most important part of getting subscribers, views and high retention when you are a small channel, which is suggested very little in this community and this is my overall point of this thread! The general advice given to members of the community doesn't really help and play no part on the grand scheme of things when it comes to YouTube.

You are using one of my videos as an example but that video has a fair bit of views already, along with my subscriber count, it hits the rankings. It wasn't ranking at all when I first uploaded that video. Also, I have never said tags aren't important for all YouTube channels. just for small channels. I've seen countless posts saying something like "use better tags so the right audience can see your content", which is true to a very limiting extent for small channels as no matter how much the tag is trending, they won't get onto search engine rankings as they are a small channel so those tags would have little influence on the YouTube algorithm. This is why I suggest that smaller channels take an active approach to exposure rather than passively waiting for the YouTube algorithm to help (I guess you can say making better, eye-catching thumbnails is taking an active approach now that I think about it).

 

[LW]

Yes, of course thumbnails catch your eye, but they won't get you anywhere if no one can see them if you aren't on ranked on the searches, which is my point. Once you get to the point where you are ranked on the searches, then they play a big role on getting the clicks and views, which is not the case for many small channels of the Freedom! community.

Yes. And to make it into the searches you will need proper metadata.

Quality (over quantity) is the most important part of getting subscribers, views and high retention when you are a small channel, which is suggested very little in this community and this is my overall point of this thread! The general advice given to members of the community doesn't really help and play no part on the grand scheme of things when it comes to YouTube.

To be really honest, in my opinion Quality over Quantity is an unsaid rule and I think everyone here knows that which is why many people don't really recommend it.

You are using one of my videos as an example but that video has a fair bit of views already, along with my subscriber count, it hits the rankings. It wasn't ranking at all when I first uploaded that video. Also, I have never said tags aren't important for all YouTube channels. just for small channels. I've seen countless posts saying something like "use better tags so the right audience can see your content", which is true to a very limiting extent for small channels as no matter how much the tag is trending, they won't get onto search engine rankings as they are a small channel so those tags would have little influence on the YouTube algorithm. This is why I suggest that smaller channels take an active approach to exposure rather than passively waiting for the YouTube algorithm to help (I guess you can say making better, eye-catching thumbnails is taking an active approach now that I think about it).

While I don't think the amount of Subscibers or views does affect SEO, in the end we both don't know it. YouTube has always been really hard at keeping their algorithms secret.

 

[Tom Cryer]

Before I get into this, I am not making any personal attacks on any members of the community nor should this be taken as an attack on the community. This is my personal opinion shaped by my experience on YouTube and the Freedom! forums.

This community has it very wrong when it comes to advice and help. I see many forum users give so called advice that is not meaningful and won't get the receiver of the advice anywhere in the grand scheme of things on YouTube.

The biggest complaint, so to speak, I have about this community is that users tend to keep repeating the same improvements when it comes to "channel reviews" and these so called improvements don't help their channel at all! For example, a channel trailer (a short video that introduces the viewer to the channel) is always recommended on this community but the fact is, it's not needed. Instead, you should put your best video (in terms of quality) or your latest video as the channel trailer. Why you ask? If they're interested in those videos, then they'll stick around for a bit longer and eventually subscribe and stay longer! Why talk about what you do in the channel trailer when you could show them what you do.

Also, things like better thumbnails, channel art, tags and titles are always suggested in these "channel reviews" but this won't help if you don't have the exposure in the first place. Especially for small channels, YouTube is such a saturated market so good thumbnails, titles and tags won't get you anywhere on such a saturated platform where SEO will have little effect for small channels. SEO requires more than just good titles and tags, they also require a substantial amount of views, likes, retention, etc which people are advising you get via SEO but in fact, this is what SEO needs. Ultimately, people in the Freedom! community always talk about having good tags and titles so that videos can get more views but in actual truth, SEO requires views and etc in the first place! This means that exposure has to be obtained through a different method (or in conjunction with) an active method that doesn't rely on YouTube algorithms. I can go into more detail but I don't have the time to write a full guide as to what I recommend when it comes to exposure (which I have used to get my channel where it is now and continuing to grow). Though I do have the time to say this: keep making videos you enjoy and don't let anyone stop you, this is what I follow.

In summary, this community is built upon helping each other and growing together as a family but forget the fact that advice and help can be good or bad, so help and advice given to most members of the Freedom! family and the forum community are from inexperienced and unsuccessful (currently) channels that won't get receivers of the advice and help anywhere on YouTube.

This won't add too much to the discussion, but I just wanted to say how I completely agree with you on the SEO 'Catch 22'. thanks for the post as it helped me draw some conclusions and I'm more than sure it will guide others.

 

[AFKPlays]

Before I get into this, I am not making any personal attacks on any members of the community nor should this be taken as an attack on the community. This is my personal opinion shaped by my experience on YouTube and the Freedom! forums.

This community has it very wrong when it comes to advice and help. I see many forum users give so called advice that is not meaningful and won't get the receiver of the advice anywhere in the grand scheme of things on YouTube.

The biggest complaint, so to speak, I have about this community is that users tend to keep repeating the same improvements when it comes to "channel reviews" and these so called improvements don't help their channel at all! For example, a channel trailer (a short video that introduces the viewer to the channel) is always recommended on this community but the fact is, it's not needed. Instead, you should put your best video (in terms of quality) or your latest video as the channel trailer. Why you ask? If they're interested in those videos, then they'll stick around for a bit longer and eventually subscribe and stay longer! Why talk about what you do in the channel trailer when you could show them what you do.

Also, things like better thumbnails, channel art, tags and titles are always suggested in these "channel reviews" but this won't help if you don't have the exposure in the first place. Especially for small channels, YouTube is such a saturated market so good thumbnails, titles and tags won't get you anywhere on such a saturated platform where SEO will have little effect for small channels. SEO requires more than just good titles and tags, they also require a substantial amount of views, likes, retention, etc which people are advising you get via SEO but in fact, this is what SEO needs. Ultimately, people in the Freedom! community always talk about having good tags and titles so that videos can get more views but in actual truth, SEO requires views and etc in the first place! This means that exposure has to be obtained through a different method (or in conjunction with) an active method that doesn't rely on YouTube algorithms. I can go into more detail but I don't have the time to write a full guide as to what I recommend when it comes to exposure (which I have used to get my channel where it is now and continuing to grow). Though I do have the time to say this: keep making videos you enjoy and don't let anyone stop you, this is what I follow.

In summary, this community is built upon helping each other and growing together as a family but forget the fact that advice and help can be good or bad, so help and advice given to most members of the Freedom! family and the forum community are from inexperienced and unsuccessful (currently) channels that won't get receivers of the advice and help anywhere on YouTube.

If you want my opinion on things, SEO DOESN'T matter to small youtubers that is 'very' small, you can have the best titles and tags but it won't do you any good....simply because it considers other things such as...average watch time, average span and etc which is MORE important than tags and etc....the reason why thumbnails are considered to be important is...IF your videos rank up in SEO, it'll be useful then...But, overall you need to understand that you may not see the difference of using a better thumbnail or worser thumbnail, better quality and lesser quality much now....but keep in mind videos on youtube are gonna be there for a long time....it may get exposure later on as well...Also, if you want an easier way to get views, make videos on the trending topics, gets views but not many subs....so...it's up to you...

 

[OnlyUltimate]

but keep in mind videos on youtube are gonna be there for a long time....it may get exposure later on as well..

How can it get exposure later on? If so, how much later? I'm actually very curious. I will say this, there's too much guess work going on in that statement. I do agree with everything else you have said.

Here is another example of what I see in the community a lot. When people are given ideas and advice they take it whole heartedly when in reality, they should always question it and further their understanding like I am now.[DOUBLEPOST=1487959618][/DOUBLEPOST]

To be really honest, in my opinion Quality over Quantity is an unsaid rule and I think everyone here knows that which is why many people don't really recommend it.

What I was trying to get across is that people recommend, let's say, "upload more" or something along the lines of "upload at least once a week". The quality of the content is never really criticised in these channel reviews even though it is way more important. I've gone a whole month without uploading before and my channel is fine and still continuing to grow.

 

[AFKPlays]

How can it get exposure later on? If so, how much later? I'm actually very curious. I will say this, there's too much guess work going on in that statement. I do agree with everything else you have said.

Here is another example of what I see in the community a lot. When people are given ideas and advice they take it whole heartedly when in reality, they should always question it and further their understanding like I am now.[DOUBLEPOST=1487959618][/DOUBLEPOST]
What I was trying to get across is that people recommend, let's say, "upload more" or something along the lines of "upload at least once a week". The quality of the content is never really criticised in these channel reviews even though it is way more important. I've gone a whole month without uploading before and my channel is fine and still continuing to grow.

Only by questioning things humanity has progressed thus far to innovate so it's good to do so. I have an explanation though...for example, 6 months later you do a video fairly similar to the video you did now....(keep in mind supposing you have a big community in 6 months) like try not to laugh challenge for example...and it becomes fairly popular! The 'try not to laugh' you did now will grow along with the future one too....you know why....similar content! That is also why a big youtuber like for example 'Pewdiepie' does that here and there . Another example, supposing you do a game playthrough....and you become quite famous in some time.....but the playthrough you did, does not gain much views....now supposing that game comes on steam sale! It'll start gaining popularity....and if you have a crowd....and they check out your playlists.....voila! An example of such a game would be : 'This War of Mine' ....[DOUBLEPOST=1487961890][/DOUBLEPOST]

How can it get exposure later on? If so, how much later? I'm actually very curious. I will say this, there's too much guess work going on in that statement. I do agree with everything else you have said.

Here is another example of what I see in the community a lot. When people are given ideas and advice they take it whole heartedly when in reality, they should always question it and further their understanding like I am now.[DOUBLEPOST=1487959618][/DOUBLEPOST]
What I was trying to get across is that people recommend, let's say, "upload more" or something along the lines of "upload at least once a week". The quality of the content is never really criticised in these channel reviews even though it is way more important. I've gone a whole month without uploading before and my channel is fine and still continuing to grow.

People are used to saying 'Upload more' because that's what works to improve consistency to new youtubers....but you on the other hand are fairly settled in youtube! you should not worry about those! Can you say the same if you had less than 50 subs? That you're channel grows even when not uploading at all?

 

[OnlyUltimate]

Only by questioning things humanity has progressed thus far to innovate so it's good to do so. I have an explanation though...for example, 6 months later you do a video fairly similar to the video you did now....(keep in mind supposing you have a big community in 6 months) like try not to laugh challenge for example...and it becomes fairly popular! The 'try not to laugh' you did now will grow along with the future one too....you know why....similar content! That is also why a big youtuber like for example 'Pewdiepie' does that here and there . Another example, supposing you do a game playthrough....and you become quite famous in some time.....but the playthrough you did, does not gain much views....now supposing that game comes on steam sale! It'll start gaining popularity....and if you have a crowd....and they check out your playlists.....voila! An example of such a game would be : 'This War of Mine' ....[DOUBLEPOST=1487961890][/DOUBLEPOST]
People are used to saying 'Upload more' because that's what works to improve consistency to new youtubers....but you on the other hand are fairly settled in youtube! you should not worry about those! Can you say the same if you had less than 50 subs? That you're channel grows even when not uploading at all?

That makes sense but how much can a small channel grow in 6 months? It will probably take years to grow to a point where a video starts to get exposure and traction. I do agree now that it can get exposure later, but should small channels really be focusing on that? Like I said in my original post, small channels should not only rely on the YouTube algorithm to gain exposure. It's just infeasible if they want to grow, especially since it'll take a very long time, a lot more than just 6 months as well in my opinion.

 

[TwilightPrinze]

Before I get into this, I am not making any personal attacks on any members of the community nor should this be taken as an attack on the community. This is my personal opinion shaped by my experience on YouTube and the Freedom! forums.

This community has it very wrong when it comes to advice and help. I see many forum users give so called advice that is not meaningful and won't get the receiver of the advice anywhere in the grand scheme of things on YouTube.

The biggest complaint, so to speak, I have about this community is that users tend to keep repeating the same improvements when it comes to "channel reviews" and these so called improvements don't help their channel at all! For example, a channel trailer (a short video that introduces the viewer to the channel) is always recommended on this community but the fact is, it's not needed. Instead, you should put your best video (in terms of quality) or your latest video as the channel trailer. Why you ask? If they're interested in those videos, then they'll stick around for a bit longer and eventually subscribe and stay longer! Why talk about what you do in the channel trailer when you could show them what you do.

Also, things like better thumbnails, channel art, tags and titles are always suggested in these "channel reviews" but this won't help if you don't have the exposure in the first place. Especially for small channels, YouTube is such a saturated market so good thumbnails, titles and tags won't get you anywhere on such a saturated platform where SEO will have little effect for small channels. SEO requires more than just good titles and tags, they also require a substantial amount of views, likes, retention, etc which people are advising you get via SEO but in fact, this is what SEO needs. Ultimately, people in the Freedom! community always talk about having good tags and titles so that videos can get more views but in actual truth, SEO requires views and etc in the first place! This means that exposure has to be obtained through a different method (or in conjunction with) an active method that doesn't rely on YouTube algorithms. I can go into more detail but I don't have the time to write a full guide as to what I recommend when it comes to exposure (which I have used to get my channel where it is now and continuing to grow). Though I do have the time to say this: keep making videos you enjoy and don't let anyone stop you, this is what I follow.

In summary, this community is built upon helping each other and growing together as a family but forget the fact that advice and help can be good or bad, so help and advice given to most members of the Freedom! family and the forum community are from inexperienced and unsuccessful (currently) channels that won't get receivers of the advice and help anywhere on YouTube.

Everyone has a different point of view and i respect your opinion.
People try to help each other wich is a good thing, sometimes the answers may seem repetitive but they at least try to help for what in their and other opinions is positive feedback to work with.

 

[AFKPlays]

That makes sense but how much can a small channel grow in 6 months? It will probably take years to grow to a point where a video starts to get exposure and traction. I do agree now that it can get exposure later, but should small channels really be focusing on that? Like I said in my original post, small channels should not only rely on the YouTube algorithm to gain exposure. It's just infeasible if they want to grow, especially since it'll take a very long time, a lot more than just 6 months as well in my opinion.

I'm not saying you will get a million subs in 6 months.....But if you can get some decent views like 500-1000 that's enough! See, once you grow and have a lot of subs like 10k for example....the growth speed is wide....you can grow really fast or be half dead....depends on how much people like your content! Some videos take years....some take months it's not exactly predictable. It has happened to people though...the main trick is not to gain too much of subs but to make sure those who have subbed to you watch you! An example, I like this youtuber 'Coryxkenshin', he always made sure of quality>quantity (ever since fairly small), what it does is it brings a 'trust' to your viewers.....so they be like, 'Ok, Cory uploaded, his videos are really fun, let's watch that first', And also it makes sure that your content is re-watchable.....that's pretty important too! But, most of all, patience man....take your time to come up...don't be too focused on growth, rather make sure your viewers are happy...

 

[OnlyUltimate]

Everyone has a different point of view and i respect your opinion.
People try to help each other wich is a good thing, sometimes the answers may seem repetitive but they at least try to help for what in their and other opinions is positive feedback to work with.

I respect the effort when someone gives feedback but, for me, it boils down to the real face value. If it's not good or constructive advice then I believe it doesn't show the "let's grow together as a family" narrative. I'm not bashing the generosity of the community, it's just one of my criticisms.[DOUBLEPOST=1488053699][/DOUBLEPOST]

But, most of all, patience man....take your time to come up...don't be too focused on growth, rather make sure your viewers are happy...

I 100% agree with this and this is what I'm trying to say. Small channels shouldn't be focused on how fast their growing, trying to use SEO to grow faster is recommended so much to small channels when this should be suggested instead.

 

[AFKPlays]

I respect the effort when someone gives feedback but, for me, it boils down to the real face value. If it's not good or constructive advice then I believe it doesn't show the "let's grow together as a family" narrative. I'm not bashing the generosity of the community, it's just one of my criticisms.[DOUBLEPOST=1488053699][/DOUBLEPOST]
I 100% agree with this and this is what I'm trying to say. Small channels shouldn't be focused on how fast their growing, trying to use SEO to grow faster is recommended so much to small channels when this should be suggested instead.

Yes, although the reason growth is given importance is understandable....the more you grow, the more you gain confidence and encouragement to make better content...as long the growth is fairly good, it's not a problem....too fast or too slow is the problem! [DOUBLEPOST=1488057402][/DOUBLEPOST]

I respect the effort when someone gives feedback but, for me, it boils down to the real face value. If it's not good or constructive advice then I believe it doesn't show the "let's grow together as a family" narrative. I'm not bashing the generosity of the community, it's just one of my criticisms.[DOUBLEPOST=1488053699][/DOUBLEPOST]
I 100% agree with this and this is what I'm trying to say. Small channels shouldn't be focused on how fast their growing, trying to use SEO to grow faster is recommended so much to small channels when this should be suggested instead.

Yes, although the reason growth is given importance is understandable....the more you grow, the more you gain confidence and encouragement to make better content...as long the growth is fairly good, it's not a problem....too fast or too slow is the problem!

 

[TwilightPrinze]

I respect the effort when someone gives feedback but, for me, it boils down to the real face value. If it's not good or constructive advice then I believe it doesn't show the "let's grow together as a family" narrative. I'm not bashing the generosity of the community, it's just one of my criticisms.[DOUBLEPOST=1488053699][/DOUBLEPOST]
I 100% agree with this and this is what I'm trying to say. Small channels shouldn't be focused on how fast their growing, trying to use SEO to grow faster is recommended so much to small channels when this should be suggested instead.

I understand your point of view

Mostly it is the new youtubers who try to help the best they can and we all learn along the way, i do YT for almost 4 years now and sometimes still struggle to find out what it is that delivers good and on point feedback